Julia Chatterley: Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the Prime Minister of Greece, joins us now. Prime Minister, always a pleasure to have you on the show. Welcome. You’ve been on the world stage for many years. You’ve also known President Biden for many years. Can I just begin by asking you personally if you’ve seen a noticeable change and whether you understand the concerns that are being expressed at this moment?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, Julia, I understand the interest in this topic, but I’m not going to jump into it for obvious reasons. President Biden was present throughout the meetings at NATO, he was always there. He spoke eloquently about important topics. And the US election is a topic for the US citizens to decide.
Julia Chatterley: Certainly. Did you get a chance to speak to him, may I ask?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I did, yes, I did. But obviously, in this context, as you know, you don’t really have too much time to speak to the host. But, you know, he was always pleasant and very engaging, as he always is with me.
Julia Chatterley: Just one more thing. He unfortunately misspoke and introduced President Zelenskyy of Ukraine as President Putin. He very quickly corrected himself, and I’ll make that clear. Did it feel as bad and as awkward in the room as it did for those people watching?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I was not there because that took place during the press conference. He didn’t misspeak while I was there. You know, I understand the awkwardness, but, you know, in public, you know, events, these things, you know, occasionally happen.
Julia Chatterley: They certainly do. You’ve long been a strong supporter of more aid and support for Ukraine. Do you think enough has been done to ensure ongoing support for Ukraine and also a path to membership at NATO, too, as a result of these talks?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I think what was clear at the summit was this commitment that Ukraine’s membership of NATO is irreversible. And, you know, all of NATO countries, I think, have gone out of our way to support Ukraine both bilaterally and as an Alliance.
And I think the end result of this meeting was that the NATO Alliance is stronger than it has ever been. It has 32 members now and a clear commitment by all members to spend at least 2% of their GDP on defence. I mean, Greece has been doing that for many, many years. And I’m happy to see that other countries, which over the past years have clearly not spent as much as they should on defence, are clearly catching up.
And, of course, Julia, this is also an issue of great interest to us Europeans because we cannot just rely on the US for our own defence. We also need to spend more as Europe. And I’ve been a strong proponent of this concept of European strategic autonomy. I think it works. It is a concept that is very complementary to NATO. If all European countries end up spending more on defence, NATO will also be stronger.
Julia Chatterley: And I think that’s an important question, something that’s been long raised by the former president, and again, a focus, certainly here in the United States. But I think beyond, for those that are talking about the prospect of ‘Trump-proofing’ NATO, is that rise in spending to the limit, if not beyond, of the 2% of GDP, in terms of defence spending, perhaps the best way to ‘organically Trump-proof’ the organisation?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, let me point out that we have to spend at least 2%, and maybe 2% is not enough in this changing geopolitical landscape. So whoever makes that argument on the US side, I think is in principle, right. And I think that the European countries, after the war in Ukraine, have realised that this is necessary spending.
And, of course, I do need to point out, Julia, that this spending is, of course, out of our national budgets. But at some point, we should also consider in Europe a European defence facility that will complement our financial firepower with more European money. If we really want to take our defence seriously, this is a discussion that needs to take place in Europe. It’s a question I have already raised at the level of the European Council with my Polish counterpart, Donald Tusk. We’ve proposed the concept of a European ‘Iron Dome’, a European air defence shield that will protect the European airspace. And I think that the discussion that will match our financial firepower with our stated ambitions needs to take place sooner rather than later.
Julia Chatterley: You are one of the key proponents, as you said, of common projects in Europe and common defence projects in particular. But, you know, I look at the recent European elections, I look at what we just saw happen in France, and I think there are those that will look at this situation and say, we’ve seen a concerted rise in nationalist populists, both actually on the left and the right of the political spectrum, and the centre is weaker as a result. It makes these kind of common projects that much harder to agree to.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Yes and no. First of all, we have a majority in the European Parliament. I mean, the centrist parties together have a majority. And I think this will be also proven with a confirmation of Ursula von der Leyen as the next President of the Commission. In my country, Greece, the centre certainly has been holding. I have the privilege of leading a centre-right government that is governing also from the political centre. And we have many other governments of a similar sort of nature in Europe.
And I think that the fears about the right, the rise of the far right at the European level, to a certain extent had been exaggerated. At least the European elections did not prove a dramatic surge of the extreme right. It’s a reality we have to deal with. And I’m always very careful when I refer to these parties because the grievances that our citizens are expressing by voting for these parties, Julia, are real. They’re very concerned about issues such as the cost of living, about migration. But the answers offered by these populist parties are very, very simplistic and unfortunately, usually unattainable. It’s up to us, I mean, the mainstream parties, to offer credible answers and real policy solutions to real grievances.
Julia Chatterley: As Greece knows well, Sir, let’s talk about the tourism season. It’s a huge and important part of the Greek economy. We’re well underway. What are you expecting and what provisions have you put in place for what is what, three times the population of Greece that come in such a short period? Can the infrastructure, can the environment withstand it?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, I think that’s a very, very good question, but people who come to Greece seem to be having a good time and that’s the reason why they’re coming back. But it is our obligation to ensure that our tourism industry is protected against climate change. And one of our main priorities is to spread out the tourist season in order for not all tourists to show up on our islands in July and August. And this to a great extent is happening.
Actually, this is the best way to address concerns regarding over-tourism. I don’t think that Greece has an over-tourism problem. It may have a problem in certain islands in July and August and we need to make sure that we address concerns about infrastructure during those months.
But overall, visitors who come to Greece enjoy, you know, usually a very, very good time. That’s why they keep coming back. And that is why I think that this year is also going to be a record year for our tourism. We’re attracting significant investment in our tourism infrastructure and our goal is always to upgrade our product and to make sure that all investments that take place meet the high standards of sustainability that we expect from our tourism industry.
Julia Chatterley: Yes, if my experience is anything you don’t want to leave when you do arrive as well. And I have to ask you, I’m sure you’re going to be furious with me, but you did make headlines around the world. I need you to debunk what has been for what I’ve now read in more depth is a myth that you introduced some kind of six-day work week increase.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I’m happy that you agree with me that it is a myth. Greece does not have a six-day workweek. Greece has a five-day workweek. Actually, we offer our employees a possibility to work for four days if they meet the 40 hours threshold and if they can agree with their employer. Only under extraordinary circumstances, in those businesses that function twenty-four seven, and this is a very, very small minority of the businesses, with the agreement of the employee, an agreement between the employee and the employer, and with significant additional pay, can we add a sixth day of work.
But no, Greece has a five day workweek and that is not going to change. And we take the protection of labour rights extremely, extremely seriously. That is why we have clamped down on employers who have hired workers illegally, we have imposed very, very hefty fines in case that we identify them and we want to make sure that our workers are fully, fully protected. And we have, I think, one of the most sophisticated and modern labour protection legislations in Europe.
Julia Chatterley: Except for you, Prime Minister, because I know it’s 24/7. Great to chat to you, sir. I’ve got plenty more questions.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Thank you, Julia. Thanks for having me.
