Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis participated in a conversation with author Victoria Hislop, in the context of the “Reimagine Tourism 2025” conference organized by “Kathimerini” newspaper at the Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center. The discussion was moderated by journalist Margarita Pournara.
In his introductory remarks, responding to a question about the return of the Parthenon Sculptures, the Prime Minister noted:
“If that were to happen, I would make sure that I would be on the flight itself. But look, this is obviously a very complicated issue. It’s no secret that we’ve had discussions with the British Museum to find an arrangement that would work for both sides. I don’t think we have made as much progress as I would like. But in light also of the big renovation that will take place involving the British Museum and the Duveen Gallery in particular, maybe this could present new opportunities.
So certainly I will keep on making the case that the Parthenon Sculptures deserve to return to the Parthenon Museum. This is not a typical restitution argument. This is a reunification argument. The Parthenon Sculptures tell a story which today is probably even more relevant than ever. It is not just an example of the pinnacle of classical Greek civilization, but it, especially the Parthenon frieze, tells the story of the Athenian democracy at its peak, and it needs to be viewed in its entirety at the Acropolis Museum.
So I will certainly persist. I don’t think that we’re close to a positive outcome, but I do also think that public opinion in the United Kingdom is certainly shifting in favour of our arguments.
Margarita Pournara: But we have nothing specific to announce.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: No, you would be the first to know, but unfortunately, no”.
“I think we have to be tenacious and very systematic in making our arguments. And of course, I do understand that for the big universal museums, there’s always a belief that the floodgates could open and all sorts of restitution claims could be made. But I do make a distinction between the Parthenon Sculptures and other objects, not just because of their particular importance for Western civilization, but again, because it is one monument.
I once used this example which upset my British friends, but it’s like cutting the Mona Lisa in half and having half of it in the Louvre and half of it in the British Museum. This is exactly the experience with the Parthenon Sculptures. It doesn’t make any sense. We built a lovely museum that is right next to the Acropolis and they need to be experienced in Greece, in situ.
And I will certainly continue to campaign, and I think we’re building also a coalition of, not just of Greeks -and I do refer to Victoria now, who is officially Greek-, but also many friends of Greece who are adding their voice to what I consider to be a very just claim and request”.
“But again, let me point out here that at the end of the day, one needs to think creatively. And one, as I’ve said publicly, could offer to the British Museum, you know, a partnership which would also work in their favour, with rotating exhibitions of treasures that maybe have never left Greece.
So we want to find a solution that works for both parties. This does not mean that we don’t have a very legitimate, not just a legal claim, but a historically and culturally legitimate claim in arguing that the Sculptures need to return to Greece”.
When asked about promoting Greece’s image abroad and the prospects for the next ten years, the Prime Minister said:
“Well, I think this is a very challenging question and of course, when we talk about branding a country, I’m always a little bit sceptical because this is something that goes beyond just our tourism product. There are many countries that are running, you know, very successful campaigns promoting their country as a tourist destination. And this, of course, is also one of the topics of this gathering.
But I think we are portraying an image of a country that has clearly left behind its very difficult years, that is moving in the right direction, that is embracing modernity while also clinging to our traditions and what makes us so unique.
So I think this is double vision of Greece, a country that offers tremendous opportunities, not just to travel to, but to work from, to set up business in Greece, while retaining a unique product in terms of what we can offer, while at the same time embracing the future with optimism and not just clinging to a glorious past. Because I think in the past we’ve constantly looked at Greece as a country that was simply the custodian of a glorious civilization.
Of course, this is incredibly important and we cherish it and we value it, but in today’s context, one needs to talk about the future and how we fit in this changing world. And of course, when we do talk also about Greece as a destination for travellers, I have not shied away from my ambition to make Greece the number one tourism destination in the world, in terms of the quality of our offering. In order to get to that point, we still have work to do, but I think at a time when people are more focused on experiences, and in particular, unique experiences, Greece has so much to offer, beyond what it has already offered in terms of its traditional tourism offering.
And of course, this forces us to look at issues around sustainability, protection of our very unique cultural and natural ecosystems. What does it mean, for example, to be the custodian of the Cycladic Islands, which are so important and so unique? What does this mean for development? And how do you balance sustainable development with the preservation of your cultural heritage?
These are difficult trademarks, but certainly we should not lose sight of the fact that, you know, whatever growth we are trying to promote, we always need to respect what makes us so unique and certainly avoid the mistakes that other countries have made, especially when it comes to overbuilding.
There are very few places, if you look at tourism, which are really overbuilt in Greece, unlike other Mediterranean destinations. And we need to make sure that we respect this very unique natural and cultural landscape that we have inherited”.
When asked about the prospects for tourism in areas of Greece that are not highly developed in terms of tourism and the government’s goals in this sector, Kyriakos Mitsotakis stated:
“I’m wearing a blue tie, but this is to celebrate the blue economy. Nothing to do with party preferences. But I think, first of all, what Victoria said is critical. If you look at the people who come to Greece, when they come to Greece, the places they visit, it’s still a relatively narrow experience.
And I think the big challenge for us and for the Ministry, and for the entire government, is to, of course, expand the season and open up more opportunities for different types of experiences. People are always surprised when I tell them that we have mountains, that they can actually ski in Greece, that they can trek in Greece.
And of course, when you look at our cultural heritage, the truth is that most people don’t come to Greece for the culture, they do come for the summer experience. So, in terms of the breadth of our cultural experiences and the sites that we can offer, I would say that the sky is a limit in terms of introducing new destinations, even for our cruise industry.
I happened to have a meeting today with one of the leading cruise operators. And there the challenge really is, how should I say it? A ‘demykonofication’ of our product. This is not just, with all respect, due respect to Mykonos and Santorini, this is not. I mean, these destinations have probably reached their limit. But when I look at, you know, these cruise ships going up and opening up new destinations where there’s not much pressure…
You mentioned, for example, Amorgos and the fishermen in Amorgos are doing an incredible job to protect their own natural habitat. This is going to attract tourists. So when we did the same in Astypalaia to launch what a true eco-friendly island really means, this is going to attract visitors. When we’re looking with the Ministry of Tourism to do a proper eco-labelling for our resorts so that people understand how sustainable they really are, this is going to open up new destinations.
And when we look at, for example, support investment, support for tourist investments, yes, my directions to the competent ministries have been very clear: offer support only in those regions that are underdeveloped in terms of tourism. We clearly don’t need more support in the more developed parts of Greece, in the Cyclades or in Crete. But when you look at, for example, western Greece, which is really developing, there are still many beach destinations in Greece.
I mean, the amazing work that was done in Costa Navarino, in Messinia, opening up a completely new destination. And again, the vertical supply chains that you build, at the end of the day, it’s all about experiences. If you go for a nice bike ride and eat at the local, not even a local taverna, at a local house and experience the tradition and the craftsmanship.
I still think there is tremendous value because the country is so diverse, because we are still in a relatively small country. You have different musics, you have different cuisines, you have different traditions, you have a very different climate. And this opens up an opportunity for a very segmented marketing by region, by city.
Look at Thessaloniki, for example. I mean, Thessaloniki is probably the only, historically the only true Greek metropolis throughout the centuries. And with the new investments there, it’s becoming an amazing city destination. But from Thessaloniki you can be in Vergina in one hour. I mean, how many have we really marketed, for example, the footsteps of St. Paul in terms of the trips that he followed? Not really.
So wherever you look, you see opportunities for a more targeted promotion of Greece that again focuses on unique experiences. And this is again my vision. It’s not so much a question of numbers, but a question of quality and certainly a question of customer satisfaction.
I want people to come to Greece, be happy about their experience, then hopefully go and buy some Greek products or some Greek agri products when they return home. And certainly return, and hopefully not necessarily return to the same destination.
And no matter where I look, I see, you know, I see these types of opportunities. So we will always preserve our main sort of mass product, but in terms of branching out in various different categories, there’s really so much more we can do.
And of course, support the relevant investments, you know, be it in marinas, because sea tourism is still probably even more sustainable than building new hotels or in terms of developing new destinations”.
When asked how we can safeguard Greece’s authenticity as tourism develops, the Prime Minister said:
“There is economic value to authenticity. Look at our crafts, for example, and this incredible tradition of craftsmanship that we’ve had in Greece. These traditions survived throughout the centuries because they served an economic purpose. Now they need to find a different economic purpose or they need to find a different market, be it, you know, your local honey producer or your local weaving or the local food that you will eat, which is going to be literally from farm to table, because that’s the way it always was. We’re not reinventing the wheel here, this is the way things work.
So assuming you can attach a specific economic value and you will have customers who are willing to pay for this, then the challenge of the government or the regulator is to make sure that you create a framework to preserve this, while ensuring that there is enough economic value for economic activity to continue for young people to stay.
And, of course, the jobs may change and you need someone who, a fisherman, for example, can make additional money by taking tourists on board, early in the morning for a fishing experience. And this is perfect because he can still do his job, but he can have an additional income by sharing what he does.
And there are many such opportunities, but it requires a lot of education, it requires training. For example, we need mountain guides, so we need to train them and certify them. We need mountain rescue operations and helicopters if you really want to open up our mountains to this type of tourism. So it’s a combination of targeted sort of redirection by the state and explaining to people that there is a future to be made by actually preserving the way things are, because people are interested in this authenticity.
And wherever you go in Greece, you will find these authentic experiences and more and more people are discovering them. And in an era when these experiences are being shared more easily, it’s also easier to market these experiences abroad. And to make a case, I very much like what you said, “full of surprises”. I think we should take this on as a suggestion, because this is sort of my experience.
Whenever I show people around Crete, they’re blown away by what they see. This is not necessarily what they expect from Greece. Not that what they expect is bad. They like what they get. They like the beaches or Knossos or the Acropolis, if they come to Athens, this is always going to be important. But there are things beyond that that can really help us turn the country into a very unique destination”.
Responding to a question about Greece’s cultural achievements today, Kyriakos Mitsotakis noted:
“I do think that there is a very vibrant cultural scene in Greece today. I mean, if you just look at Athens, the activities, the performing arts, the Museum of Modern Art and the work that it is doing, the number of cultural exhibitions related to modern art, I think we have every reason to be proud of our modern cultural heritage.
And I think, frankly, if you look at Athens, there are not many cities that offer this breadth of experience that Athens does. And the same, of course, is true for new writers or new poets. So I think there are a lot of sort of bright lights when it comes to modern cultural output.
And I think this is to be expected because Greece going through all this crisis, I mean, the crisis is usually a laboratory for artistic expression. And a lot of the artistic creations that you see now is also the product of a country that had to struggle with its identity, with its place in the modern world. And some of the work that I see is truly exceptional, world class, I would say”.
When asked which place he would recommend to a friend who has never visited Greece before, Kyriakos Mitsotakis said:
“Well, if it were an island, it would be Tinos, but because I can be accused of being biased, I would choose Limnos, which is an extraordinary island, up north, with a totally unique geography unlike any sort of Greek island. You remind you probably a little bit of Scotland in terms of the geology.
And I think if it were the mountains, for me it would have to be Zagori and the mountains north of Giannena. Totally unique combination of stunning natural beauty and an incredible and very well preserved cultural heritage, in terms of all the villages in the area. Zagori, by the way, has been discovered by many foreigners.
And again, the possibility of our mountain destinations becoming year round destinations. It’s easier for a mountain destination to become a year round destination than for an island, a smaller island, to become a year round destination”.
