Christiane Amanpour: I am joined by the Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis from Athens. Welcome back to our programme, Prime Minister.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Hello, Christiane. Good evening from Athens.
Christiane Amanpour: Good evening. So what’s your immediate thoughts about the so-called “ceasefire”, the 2-week possibility of “window”? But also, Iran is saying, you know, what’s happening in Lebanon? Trump is saying “we can’t, you know, negotiate because they’re showing us a different document”. What do you think is going to happen from here?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, first of all, let me point out that Greece joined a common statement which was signed by many European leaders welcoming the ceasefire and hoping that we can use this 15-day window to reach a negotiated settlement. And I do believe that we have reasons to be cautiously optimistic.
Having said that, I would like to express my deep concern about what is happening in Lebanon, because it is very clear to me, as a country which is relatively close to Lebanon, that the Israeli offensive right now is completely counterproductive. And I do believe that if we want to talk about a complete ceasefire in the region, it needs to essentially extend to all theatres of operation, including Lebanon.
We need to give some space to the Lebanese government to do its job in terms of taking control of the Lebanese south. And by attacking Lebanon right now, the only thing that Israel is achieving is giving Hezbollah, which has already been significantly weakened, a new lease of life.
Christiane Amanpour: Well, I mean, you’re very, very clear on the position. I could ask you, do you think, like many think, that the Israeli government just doesn’t want a ceasefire and is not interested in lightening up or softening up on Hezbollah?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Look, I want to be very clear, Christiane. We have a strategic partnership with Israel, but, you know, friends need to speak truth to friends. And my view on Lebanon has been very clear. For the first time in decades, I think we have a competent government in Lebanon. If these attacks continue, you will have a humanitarian catastrophe -ιt is already evolving. Βut you will also end up delegitimizing completely the Lebanese government.
I don’t think this is in Israel’s long-term interest. And I would hope that these operations stop as quickly as possible, not just for humanitarian reasons, but also for making sure that we maintain a general framework of a ceasefire that encompasses the whole region.
Christiane Amanpour: I hate to just harp on Israel, but the Prime Minister Netanyahu is speaking as we’re speaking. He says “we have more goals to accomplish, either in agreement or by force. Our fingers are on the trigger”. So let’s wait and see what that means.
In the meantime, what is your biggest takeaway from what needs to happen in this, if it continues, this ceasefire between the US and Iran, particularly around the Strait of Hormuz?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Obviously, we have skin in the game, Christiane. We are one of the largest players in terms of the Greek-owned and Greek-controlled maritime fleet, and I’ve always been defending the freedom of navigation, and this is becoming a critical topic vis-à-vis the future of the Strait of Hormuz.
I mean, the Strait of Hormuz was always a free straight in terms of freedom of navigation, and I think it needs to remain that in the future. I don’t think that the international community would be ready to accept Iran setting up a toll booth for every ship that crosses the straits. It seems to me to be completely unacceptable.
So I do believe that intense negotiations will take place. I think it is possible, Christiane, that we may end up needing a separate international agreement regarding the Strait of Hormuz. There are precedents in history, but this agreement cannot, I repeat, cannot include sort of a fee that ships will have to pay every time they cross the Strait of Hormuz. This was not the case before the war started, and it cannot be the case after the war finishes.
Christiane Amanpour: Well, I mean, you know, the Strait of Hormuz wasn’t closed before the war started…
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Exactly, it wasn’t closed and it was open and no one paid anything in order to cross it. We would be setting a very, very dangerous precedent if that were to happen for the freedom of navigation globally.
Christiane Amanpour: So Prime Minister, what I mean, this is your major ally. The Transatlantic Alliance has been the foremost alliance since the Second World War. Do you think it’s weakened beyond repair? Do you think even Trump threatening to pull out weakens it? And where do you see it in the next month, years? Where do you see it going?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, I’m a firm believer in the longevity of the Transatlantic Alliance. At the same time, I do recognise that we’re currently faced with significant challenges. But I would also like to point out, Christiane, that as a result of initiatives taken by the US President, Europe has gotten its act together when it comes to defence. President Trump was right to say that essentially Europe did not pick up its fair share of the burden in terms of defence spending.
Greece was always the exception for our own geopolitical reasons. We’re currently spending more than 3% of our GDP on defence. And I can tell you that there’s a lot of momentum in Europe to strengthen the European Strategic Autonomy Pillar. And I think this will be good for NATO.
So I think we need to take our defence in Europe much more seriously than we have done so in the past. By doing so, I think we will also rebalance NATO in a way that will be in the interest of the Alliance as a whole.
And certainly Greece is hoping to lead in this initiative, and I’m happy that many other European countries are taking the defence of Europe much more seriously than they had in the past.
Christiane Amanpour: Including Greece has joined an initiative to have nuclear protection, like nuclear umbrella, right here in Europe, as was proposed by the French President.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: That is correct. We’ve started preliminary discussions regarding some proposals by President Macron. As you know, France is the only country that currently possesses a nuclear deterrent within the European Union.
And again, any discussion to strengthen the European pillar of our European defence, I think, needs to be welcomed by European countries. Again, I don’t think this will happen at the detriment of NATO, but we need to recognise that NATO was essentially and still is to a certain extent, an Alliance that is way too much dependent on the US. So we need to also pick up our fair share of the burden and make sure that we increase our defence spending, bolster our European defence capabilities.
And I can tell you that this is a topic that is frequently discussed at the European Council and we are making significant progress in that direction.
Christiane Amanpour: The Trump effect, so to speak.
Now let me ask you about something else that you have announced as a government, and that is the social media ban. You’ve announced that Greece will ban social media for children under the age of 15 from 2027. Tell me about these conversations you say you’ve had with parents.
Obviously other nations have done it. Australia was the first, and there are also other nations who are very interested in doing this.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, Christiane, I first raised this topic 18 months ago at the speech of the United Nations General Assembly. At the time, no one was really talking about the impact of social media on the mental health of children. I can tell you it is the first topic when I discuss with parents who have young kids and teenagers, and they do ask us, “do something about it”.
Even the kids themselves recognise that the way these platforms are designed contributes towards them spending too much time on screens. There are clear correlations in terms of their mental health.
And it shouldn’t come as a surprise because these platforms are in the attention business, but they just should not start their business model with capturing and monetizing the attention of our kids and our teenagers.
So we have announced a ban on social media for kids under 15 to go into effect January 1st, 2027. But I’ve also sent a letter to the President of the European Commission, because we cannot do this on our own. We need Europe’s assistance. As you know, the large platforms are regulated by a European piece of legislation, called the Digital Services Act.
And my vision and my hope is that what is currently going to become Greece’s policy – and of course, there are many other European countries moving in that direction – will eventually also become a European policy.
And I would hope that Europe leads on this front, because this is a global problem and the platforms need to recognise that they need to cooperate with us and they essentially need to accept and acknowledge that they’re not just intermediaries, but they are responsible for the design of their own products. And if these products are addictive by design, they need to do something about it.
Christiane Amanpour: So tell me what the “do something about it” is because you say you’ve written this letter to the President of the Commission. What can it look like? What penalties? What methods?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, first of all, the penalties need to be imposed at the European level because we are part of the single market. But I think, Christiane, in a few years from now, this discussion will be so obvious that no one will discuss about whether children need to have access to social media in the same way that, for example, we don’t allow our kids to smoke or to drink alcohol.
I mean, the evidence is out there. And again, I don’t even need much scientific background. You just talk to the parents, they’re desperate, especially younger kids completely addicted to their phones, communicating with their friends through text messages, essentially trapped in a virtual bubble.
I mean, kids should be outside, playing, doing sports, playing music. This is not a normal childhood. And the earlier we recognise it, the more determined we will become in terms of just stating the obvious that, I mean, these products should be off limits for kids under a certain age.
And I would hope that we will reach a point where we have a European, an EU digital majority age, and where this becomes EU legislation. And I think that Europe, again, in terms of the protection of children, adolescents, will lead the way.
We want kids to have access to technology. We’re not banning technology. We’re not banning the internet. But we just want to make sure that they stay away from products which are designed to just capture their attention for hours. And that has a clear impact on their mental health.
Christiane Amanpour: Just briefly and quickly, are you willing to risk Trump’s ire on this as well? You know that he doesn’t want any regulation of the US tech companies. You’ve already stood up about Greenland and faced him down. You said no to joining this war, and now the digital space. You are growing some independence, you in Europe.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, let me tell you, Christiane, I’m sure that if you talk, or if there are parents listening to us in the US, they’re having exactly the same thoughts. And I wouldn’t be surprised if this eventually also becomes US policy.
Christiane Amanpour: And on that note, Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, thanks for joining us.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Thank you, Christiane.
